Curse

Tenebrae · Jul 22, 2010, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Frost

Rangers could use some love but they dont really need alot. just some minor tweaking would be nice and some love to the beastmastery attribute. would be nice to see them remove the after cast or if they wont, eliminate all casting times on attacks that have it, PVE only would be nice for that if they are worried about PvP issues.

Check #33. BM is a bad designed att , it shouldnt be an att in the first place. I dont see Warriors or Paragons having to spend skill slots to use a Spear right ? well , thats what the pet is , a weapon. And if you use that dumb slow attacking weapon you have to sacrifice your damage ( yeah , because ranger damage is soooooooo big lol ) and skill slots. Bad bad bad .
Good thing is they learned , in GW2 things will be diff.

Cuilan · Jul 22, 2010, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Other classes are posting how easy it is to blitz the underworld or solo farm raptors and you cannot because the class you invested all your time and effort in cannot do what they do.

Funny how I see a lot of ranger farming builds on PvX. You're saying a profession that is used to farm a lot is bad at farming, even when there is far worse professions for such.

The Drunkard · Jul 23, 2010, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Check #33. BM is a bad designed att , it shouldnt be an att in the first place. I dont see Warriors or Paragons having to spend skill slots to use a Spear right ? well , thats what the pet is , a weapon. And if you use that dumb slow attacking weapon you have to sacrifice your damage ( yeah , because ranger damage is soooooooo big lol ) and skill slots. Bad bad bad .
Good thing is they learned , in GW2 things will be diff.

Agreed. Pets have absolutly no synergy with bows in any way, shape, or form. Not only that, but the way that pet skills work greatly slows dedicated bm builds down from doing noticable dps, EVEN IF the pet AI was perfect (which it is not). The only reason pets were ever used was because they could inflict daze, and even with the IAS skills added Nightfall and on, the damage is still lackluster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Other classes are posting how easy it is to blitz the underworld or solo farm raptors and you cannot because the class you invested all your time and effort in cannot do what they do.

Rangers can farm UW just as effectively as rits can, and the R/A SF varient of whirling defense farms faster than A/E can. Rangers, however, can no longer rely on builds such as splinter barrage and trapping to farm and instead must resort to gimmicks. The builds mentioned are located here, and have been derived from guru in the farming forum section:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Any/Rt_Spirit_Farmer
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:R/A_Whirling_Farmer

You should actually start reading the forums before you post.

gremlin · Jul 23, 2010, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Funny how I see a lot of ranger farming builds on PvX. You're saying a profession that is used to farm a lot is bad at farming, even when there is far worse professions for such.

Oh I am quite willing to be wrong about ranger viability if fact I hope I am totally utterly wrong.

I do remember rangers trapping and being very good at it and also remember teams of barrage rangers usually with animal companions.
Haven't seen them for a while and haven't heard of anyone doing much ranger hard mode.
I have seen loads of assassins primary and secondary and I have seen many spirit spam characters some of whom were rangers.

I do care about the ranger it was my first class though I started a Ranger Necro and Mesmer within a week of each other and played all three for many hundreds of hours, of course there were some great parties in those days and we didn't have guildwiki telling us that this and that build was the only way to play.
We were ignorant of what was good or bad and just played for fun.

Maybe its just that I am so focussed on what's missing from rangers I find it hard to get to grips with them.

They are one of the oddest classes in the game.
They are a combat weapon using class they have no skills based on adrenaline.
They have what are effectively damaging skills/spells they have to use a weapon to cast them.
These weapons affect the range damage and speed of some of these skills.

Their armour is excellent especially vs elemental damage.
They have lots of skills that enable them to move quickly and avoid damage.

They can damage interrupt spread conditions they can also use other class skills to great effect to boost their own skills, Im thinking of splinter shot conjure element etc.

They in fact do many things quite well but nothing better than any other class, jack of all trades master of none.

I will check out the farming builds and see if they are still usable.

edit

Just checked out the two links posted by the Drunkard

build 1 uses 2 ranger skills 4 assassin skills and 2 deldrimore skills.
Its a shadowform build using ranger as a base.

Build 2 is a spiritspam build.

Ok I agree I am totally wrong about rangers you can play a great all singing all dancing ranger character as long as you dont use a bow or ranger skills hmm.

Anyway am off to check out builds as I said.

R_Frost · Jul 23, 2010, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Check #33. BM is a bad designed att , it shouldnt be an att in the first place. I dont see Warriors or Paragons having to spend skill slots to use a Spear right ? well , thats what the pet is , a weapon. And if you use that dumb slow attacking weapon you have to sacrifice your damage ( yeah , because ranger damage is soooooooo big lol ) and skill slots. Bad bad bad .
Good thing is they learned , in GW2 things will be diff.

exactly. the one thing ive always wondered about rangers and the beast mastery attribute. why is there no Bow that requires beast mastery or a beast masters staff, mainly the staff. or a bow that requires expertise or wilderness survival. that way you dont have to spec into marksmanship to do damage should you choose to be a beast master and maybe carry a trap or 2. i was reviewing the stuff in beast mastery recently, it does need help, there even a few things that truely should be in wilderness survival or expertise. only problem is that this late in the game i doubt we could be successful getting any changes made

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

I do remember rangers trapping and being very good at it and also remember teams of barrage rangers usually with animal companions.
Haven't seen them for a while and haven't heard of anyone doing much ranger hard mode.

the team builds that ran that died when Anet made the change that pets no longer leave a corpse. i think that was due to PvP but not sure. as for Rangers in HM, with the speed clearing mentality and the push for AoE damage, but mainly its due to everyone wants to do things as fast as possible. yeah Rangers dont get much love when it comes to getting into a group unless its guild or alliance teams.

Cuilan · Jul 23, 2010, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Oh I am quite willing to be wrong about ranger viability if fact I hope I am totally utterly wrong.

I do remember rangers trapping and being very good at it and also remember teams of barrage rangers usually with animal companions.
Haven't seen them for a while and haven't heard of anyone doing much ranger hard mode.

Then you aren't even looking.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_UW_Trapway team
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:R/Me_UW_Trapper solo
And those are just trapping, as they have other builds. You're a ranger, you should know this.

gremlin · Jul 23, 2010, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Then you aren't even looking.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_UW_Trapway team
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:R/Me_UW_Trapper solo
And those are just trapping, as they have other builds. You're a ranger, you should know this.

I am well aware of those builds don't forget many of the builds there are well outdated some still work some do not.
Also many are specialised around farming a single boss or one specific area.

Anyway I don't want to keep drawing the thread away from the original posters thoughts about buffing Barrage.

Rangers are ok they could be made a little better traps should be looked at and nature spirits as many are just too limiting.

I think someone suggested the detrimental effects should just effect the enemy and the beneficial effects just affect the party.
Area effect damage works this way as do necro wells otherwise we could never use them as we do.

Anyway we are all entitled to an opinion and I am done explaining mine.
Will be back with more comments after the next ranger skill rewrites.

Xiaquin · Jul 23, 2010, 06:02 AM // 06:02

I really wanted to stay out of this one, but, I got too curious.

Overall, ranger skills that are AoE are pretty weak, but what else is new? If you increase AoE range, it has to be counterbalanced, likely by energy cost and recharge; that can negate what's gained. I'd personally rather have cheap/spammy over wider AoE. For example, put Shadow of Fear and Meekness side by side.

Really, Barrage is in a tough spot. It can be abused to great effect with the right gimmicks now, but outside of that (and buffs) it falls short. So in other words, it's like a ton of other skills in the game.

Personally, I ran it for a long time, and other than a revival for Battle for LA, it collects dust. I ask myself: if it had a slightly wider range (at an adjusted cost), would I take it? The answer is still a no. I don't see a way to expand it without breaking it. It's either going to be great for a narrow application or just mediocre.

headlesshobbs · Jul 24, 2010, 07:54 AM // 07:54

I personally wouldn't mind having my 1sec skills back.

supac · Jul 24, 2010, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

Uhmmm...name one...that can deal as much damage... to an unlimited number within the area...with such a short cycle time and low energy...that doesn't require them to not move for the time of the effect...

uh, searing flames?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Then you aren't even looking.
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_UW_Trapway team
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:R/Me_UW_Trapper solo
And those are just trapping, as they have other builds. You're a ranger, you should know this.

yeah, those are not so viable atm. why run a slow farm like trap when you can just spam spirits? and when was the last time youve seen a trapway group being formed?

Cuilan · Jul 24, 2010, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by supac

yeah, those are not so viable atm. why run a slow farm like trap when you can just spam spirits? and when was the last time youve seen a trapway group being formed?

Yesterday. And if you have ideas to make them viable, you are always able to edit them on that site.

Amy Awien · Jul 24, 2010, 10:41 PM // 22:41

From the ratings page the first gets a "Too slow. Not even close to efficient compared to the best builds out there currently "
The second is a solo farm build, both are targetting UW.

End · Jul 25, 2010, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by supac

uh, searing flames?

You had better be running alot of energy management

not to mention...you'll probs want mark of rodgort or every third spam wont do damage...

my mains an ele...theres a reason why I don't use SF...I'm better off healing -.-'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

I still have to learn how to ball three foes together so you can hit 7 of them :P

Pull another group then...that and...why are you outside ascalon?

next if theres only 3 then aoe in general will suck making this all irrelevant

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:P Not really, question was answered and I am not going to dig through hundreds of skills to list those that are more effective, with all the restrictions and bonusses they may have to make selection even easier.

I still have yet to see an effective skill

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Besides, I specifically choose to interpret your request as 'in-the-area' so that I didn't have to dig through hundreds of 'adjacent', 'nearby' and 'in-the-area' AoE skills and could limit myself to the smaller category of 'in-the-area' :P

I was giving you any chance possible to come up with a good skill...

Quote:

But hey, popping in from the top of my head, Death Nova, 5 E, no recharge, some 100+ damage. More damage - even when with some delay - shorter recharge and when properly used it is usually brought to your target(s) so there's no need to walk there yourself.

Requires something to die...you could use minnions...but its almost pointless on a human cause you have to select a dying minion

or spam on all of them and hope your heros don't waste time healing them.
sooo still not a reasonable replacement :\

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Well, you know by the time I'm through rupting them so many of them died that the rest ain't adjacent anymore

if they are dead by the time your done rupting then why rupt

death is a much better rupt than any other rupt skill i can think of...

Quote:

If it recharges so quikcly it should be nerfed.

your comment makes noooo sense in context with what I said

Amy Awien · Jul 25, 2010, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

not to mention...you'll probs want mark of rodgort or every third spam wont do damage...

The burning from SF deals about as much damage as the direct (conditional) damage. MoR doesn't really help SF.

But, since your main is an elementalist, you already know this.

Quote:

my mains an ele...theres a reason why I don't use SF...I'm better off healing -.-'

Unless you are in an all human team henchmen can take care of (most of) the healing part.

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Pull another group then...that and...why are you outside ascalon?

Collecting two groups and balling them up takes time, time your team is not doing damage. Time ignored when mentioning the 1 second recharge of Barrage.

Remember when I said you had to design teambuild and tactics around Barrage to make it good?

When (linked) groups become larger then 6 they also become more diverse, and casters and melee don't ball up in the same spot (at least not when you're on a bow).

Quote:

next if theres only 3 then aoe in general will suck making this all irrelevant

Probably why Discordway is so popular. If you catch 3 in an adjacent AoE you'd be happy in most area's. Which is why a nearby/in-the-area range for Barrage is a reasonble suggestion.

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I still have yet to see an effective skill

I mentioned one - two actually - and someone else another one. You just keep changing your question

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Requires something to die...

Not a big deal, minions die easily and serve other purposes as well. It's not elite to compensate.

Death Nova makes mobs melt away in PvE.

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... its almost pointless on a human ...

1) Ask the human minion masters.
2) I don't recall you mentioning human players

You are changing your question?

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if they are dead by the time your done rupting then why rupt

Because some of their skills can be sooo annoying - before they die. H&H tend to ball up around me and simply rupting AoE's from mobs is faster then flagging my H&H.

Quote:

your comment makes noooo sense in context with what I said

It did, but I might have been too brief; if mobs have skills that recharge before they die, those skills should be nerfed (by having their recharge increased).